Apps for kids is a totally difference space than games, on-demand apps, or any other part of the app ecosystem aimed at teens or adults. In this episode of Retention Masterclass, Peggy Anne Salz and I chat with the product manager for Sago Mini World, Brennan Clark.
Clark, who’s led the company to over 350 million app installs and helped Sago Mini World transition to a subscription monetization model in 2017, shares how to ethically market and deliver apps for kids … and how to deal with the fact that your user is one person, but your customer is another (parents).
Both Peggy and I loved this interview: super-informative, super-interesting, and packed with insights that will be valuable for mobile marketers of all kinds of different apps.
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Watch: What 350M app installs taught Brennan Clark about apps for kids
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Read: Monetizing mobile apps for kids via subscriptions
(This transcript has been lightly edited for length and clarity).
John Koetsier: What can 350 million app installs teach us about user retention for kids? Hello and welcome to Retention Masterclass. My name is John Koetsier.
Peggy Anne Salz: And my name is Peggy Anne Salz, and we’re your co-hosts on the show.
John Koetsier: Today, we’re doing something quite different. I mean, very different. I’ve been chatting with our guest just pre-show here, and it’s amazing how much I don’t know about what he does. So it’s different again, last episode was quite a departure for us as well.
Today we’re talking about user retention in kids-focused apps.
Peggy Anne Salz: And that’s a really cool area, John, because it’s very different. We’ve been talking about adult-focused apps. We’ve been looking at strategies around engaging people and segmentation. But here we have, you know, there’s privacy, there’s monetization, there’s parents, right? This is not just marketing to them, it’s marketing to them through the parents.
And we’ve also seen that that can go also terribly bad, you know, leave kids alone with an app — don’t watch the kids on the apps and you’ve got a mega bill. There was something in the news recently, right? $16K in spend, while the mother was working, kid’s on the app.
John Koetsier: Yeah. That was a six-year-old, and he had a little Christmas gift for his mother [laughter] and it came in the form of a massive credit card bill. And we don’t know where that’s going yet — hopefully Apple will just be kind and say, ‘Hey, look, we understand, we get it.’
But wow, there’s a lot to figure out there if you’re a parent with kids and they have an iPad or an iPhone. But there’s a lot to learn here too. And I mentioned right off the top, I mean, it’s amazing — and I’m just going to riff here for a second, because I feel like I know quite a bit about mobile. I feel like I know quite a bit about mobile games, and hyper casual, and on-demand apps, and everything like that. And we’ve delved into those, Peggy, a lot over the course of this show and other things that we’ve worked on together.
But when I look at kids and when I look at what our guest is doing, I’m like, wow, there’s a lot I don’t know! He led growth marketing for apps with over 350 million installs, and I hadn’t heard of them. I haven’t been in that world. He’s the product manager for Sago Mini World, which has millions of installs, and, Peggy, go ahead and introduce him.
Peggy Anne Salz: Absolutely. His name is Brennan Clark, and as we said, he is the man for looking at what is going to engage kids ages three to five and beyond that. Great to have you here today, Brennan, on Retention Masterclass.
Brennan Clark: Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
John Koetsier: We are super happy to have you, and we’re super happy to learn new things because guess what? We want to learn. That’s just who we are, and hopefully that’s what our guests are as well.
So, let’s start here: 350 million installs. I mean, that’s significant. There are very few, you’re in the top 0.1 percentile of apps here. There’s got to be a few stories here.
Tell us about your current apps and maybe just a little bit of your history.
Brennan Clark, product manager at Sago Mini
Brennan Clark: Yeah, so I guess the first place to start would be where we all began back in 2012. So we started releasing single games, so they would be paid apps in the App Store. So, you know, we would charge $5 for a download. That model kind of went to the wayside.
Nowadays, users are very unlikely to purchase upfront for $5. So in about 2017, I believe, we kind of looked at that paid model and then moved it over to a subscription model. We kind of saw that trend happening of subscriptions are kind of the next business model that’ll really take hold in the App Store and the Google Play Store.
So essentially what we did is we wrapped all of our existing games into a single subscription app. And so that is what Sago Mini World is now, is taking all these games that we’ve created — we’re at 36 now I believe — and wrapping them in a single app that is Sago Mini World.
So it’s one price for the whole month, and that will get you access to all of our games in our whole catalog.
John Koetsier: Hey, that’s way in advance of, you know — I mean, the whole rage is subscriptions right now, but, Peggy, we didn’t see much of that in 2017.
Peggy Anne Salz: No, no. I was just thinking that, because it was not the model.
I mean, now everyone’s saying this is the way we’re actually going to monetize and make money. But no, absolutely. And then to pick out a subscription model by bundling all the existing games, I mean, you weren’t afraid of cannibalizing. That’s very, very brave.
Brennan Clark: Yeah. So the decision was essentially that we’re going to leverage all these existing games. We have a fantastic catalog; we might as well leverage them into this subscription app. And then we’ve also doubled down on subscriptions. So we now have a more education-focused subscription product that launched this year: Sago Mini School. And then we actually just launched a physical subscription box available in the U.S., so that’s a bunch of make and play activities that’s shipped to your door every month.
And so we’ve actually moved it into the physical subscription space.
John Koetsier: Brennan, I just want to dial in on one thing that you said here, and that’s just about subscriptions. Does that model preclude parents from having that credit card shock that we talked about right off the top, where the kid spent $10,000 because, hey, it’s just a game and I’m just pushing buttons?
Brennan Clark: Yeah, exactly. And so, that’s been one of the biggest — so obviously the model as a whole is fantastic, but it’s also for our age range, three- to five-year-olds. They don’t really understand the concept of racking up IAP bills.
So the two other models, you know, IAP or ads … not fantastic for this age range. Parents are really concerned about privacy, not racking up these bills, and then with an ad-based model you do have those privacy concerns. So subscription really makes sense for these three- to five-year-olds.
John Koetsier: Love it.
Peggy Anne Salz: I’m going to dial in later on the digital/physical here, John. Because, you know, if he’s doing subscriptions in 2017 and he’s morphing digital and physical … he’s onto something. We have to ask him about that. But, I will get over to something else, which is around the audience. And I hate to do it, but I’m always going to have a pun.
You’re talking to children ages three to five — that’s not child’s play necessarily to engage this demographic, and of course, you have to win the loyalty of their parents as well. So, what is different about marketing and retention for kids apps? You’ve got two constituencies in a way, if you want to start there.
Brennan Clark: Yeah, I’ll start there, and that’s probably the biggest point, is that your user is not your buyer. And so there’s a whole host of problems that come with that. You pretty much have to appeal to two different audiences. For parents, there’s the whole privacy concern, you know, making sure their kid will be engaged, will be having fun, that it’s good content, that it’s thoughtful, it’s not the YouTube rabbit holes that kids can go through — they don’t want that. They want to know that their kid is in this safe space and that [when] they hand off the tablet or the phone, that kid is going to be enjoying themselves in a safe environment.
For the kid, of course, you need something that’s engaging. Kids can lose interest very quickly — that’s an understatement, probably. So, really the depth of the content and the true quality of that content needs to be substantial and have kids coming back. You also can’t retarget users and get them back in the app that way, so you really have to ensure that your content is working wonders and getting users back in, getting these kids back in and enjoying the experience.
Peggy Anne Salz: So really the motor retention here is going to be the product.
Brennan Clark: Exactly. Yeah.
Peggy Anne Salz: So let’s talk about that. You know, we talked about the downloads, that’s impressive. This is Retention Masterclass, we have to talk about the retention curve. We have to talk about what are some of the KPIs, some of the metrics that tell me that you are doing what you’re setting out to do — which is engage children and keep them coming back, keeping their parents happy.
Brennan Clark: Yeah, so looking — I can’t give you any specific numbers, but looking at our cohort of competitors in the App Store and Google Play Store, we are one of the leading 5% in terms of revenue and retention in this under-five kids space.
So we’ve done well in that sense.
One of the interesting things about retention, and we’ll kind of dive into this a bit more, but retention for these kids apps, is that we have this innate leaky bucket. So a lot of companies are concerned about their leaky buckets. We can’t avoid a leaky bucket because we’re defined by our age range. So when a kid hits five or six years old, they are no longer our user. So it would be like if a Netflix user decides to stop watching movies automatically after two years, no questions asked. So, you have this like finite point where your user is no longer in your target market, so you have this leaky bucket that you have to kind of deal with. It also impacts the acquisition side of things, because if you’re acquiring a four-and-a-half-year-old versus a three-year-old, that is a very different LTV that you are kind of hit with upfront, and you can’t do anything about that in the product really.
Peggy Anne Salz: Mm-hmm.
John Koetsier: Brennan, that is so amazing, and we were chatting about this pre-show, right? Because we were talking, that I hadn’t heard of you because I hadn’t been focused on the kids space. I hadn’t seen it before. I hadn’t, you know, and we were talking about some of the brands that I had heard of, some of the brands — and those were when my kids were younger, right, and it was like a little walk down memory lane.
And yeah, we talked about Webkinz and other things like that, and I remember that. And that’s a totally different way of having to have your app, that constant renewal. Everybody deals with churn … but most mobile apps and games their churn is week-to-week, or maybe if you’re an on-demand platform that might be year-to-year, or even for some of them multi-years.
But you’ve got this built-in churn. It’s really, really challenging to deal with, I’m sure.
Brennan Clark: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s something that — it’s what keeps us up at night of course, is how do we solve for this? How do we ensure that we have a stronger LTV? And with that, you know, the acquisition and the retention side of things are almost equally important in that sense. Because as I mentioned, acquiring a four-and- a-half-year-old, your max retention is say five, six months. That makes it a lot tougher.
John Koetsier: Yeah. Yeah. So, you’re combining storytelling and rewards that trigger some activity. What’s that look like? What’s the user experience for a kid in your app? And maybe as well, ping in a little bit on what’s the user experience of your buyer? What’s the user experience of the kid in your app? What’s the user experience of your buyer, the parent?
Brennan Clark: Yeah.
So the user experience between parent and kid is obviously very different. Parents don’t have a ton of time, and that’s kind of like the crux of how we design for parents, is that they have a single intention typically when they go into the app. We need to remove any barriers for them to get to what they need to do.
So if that’s manage subscription, if they need help, if there’s a bug to report, if they want to purchase … we need to cut out any unnecessary steps for them to get there. Interestingly enough, one of our onboarding findings recently was that if you actually include text to read in the onboarding, in kind of pitching your products with text, it performs worse than just having like a looping video in the background while they’re doing stuff.
Parents do not like reading. They don’t have time, overall. So that’s kind of one of the interesting findings. Now for the kid—
John Koetsier: So one of your target demographics can’t read; the other demographic doesn’t want to read.
Brennan Clark: Exactly. Exactly. So we are pretty bare in terms of text in the app, I’ll say that.
Now designing for kids, storytelling is really the core of it. If you think about physical products — and we take a lot of inspiration from physical toys, in our apps — if you think about a doll set, or any kind of play set, storytelling is the core of that. It is these stories that kids tell through the tools that you’ve given them.
And so we’ve kind of built that into the entire game experience for kids. And so we continue to push out fantastic games, we launch about four or five games a year with that in mind. We’ve also just launched this “Surprises” feature, and so these Surprises are a new daily activity. So every day a kid comes back in, there’s a small kind of bite-sized activity that they haven’t seen before with one of our core characters that they can engage with. And that kind of has that reward of every day they come back, they know there’s going to be this new activity for them and this new character that they can have fun with.
John Koetsier: It’s really interesting, because that feeds into a theme that Peggy and I have been seeing for many episodes right now, that product is the marketing, right? You come back in, there’s something there, there’s something new, there’s something exciting. So you’re designing — how are you finding that feature impacts your retention? What are the results?
Brennan Clark: So, since we’ve launched that feature earlier this year, we’ve seen about a 15-20% increase in app opens, which is quite substantial.
Not an easy feat for sure, especially for a product that’s been out for a few years. So that has done wonders in terms of engagement and retention for us. One of the interesting kind of secondary objectives of that — and what’s really helped out there — is that it’s really kind of helping out the relationship with the kid and the characters. And the characters are really core to the storytelling piece of it for kids apps. And so it’s, because it’s a one-on-one activity every time with the kid and the character, it’s strengthening that relationship between kid and characters, and really helping out in terms of engagement and retention that way.
Peggy Anne Salz: So we know about the opens since you started Surprises, and I like that idea. I like the idea of serendipity in here, you know, just throw something in there to get my attention, to keep the level of excitement high. We know they’re having fun with the characters, and we know that’s what kids are there for in the first place.
But how is this also reflected perhaps in the sessions or in the frequency, the recency? How is that impacting sort of that longer retention model that tells you, hey, I have someone coming in, but I can also start to calculate and think about what this is going to look like, and ultimately that feeds into your other models and into your LTV?
Brennan Clark: Yeah, so we have seen an uptick in monthly retention. It hasn’t had the chance really to impact annual retention too much, because it’s only been out for a few months now. So it’s impacted monthly churn there. Interestingly on the content side of things, so now what we have to do is kind of service this thing that we’ve built.
So it’s a different way of — before we were launching single games, now we’re continuing to update this single feature, this single experience with these new bite-sized activities. So we’re consistently creating new content for this Surprises feature. Where now we really want to make a stash of a multi-year kind of … daily activity kind of stash, where that will really kind of help with monthly and annual churn over the long term.
Peggy Anne Salz: So we talked about it, you know, you have an audience that — really, it’s almost like a risk, you know, do I want a four-and-a-half-year-old, because I’m just going to have them to five? But there are other ways to extend the lifetime of your audience. Because the age is finite, it’s like three to five, but you can grow with them and grow your retention.
How do you extend the lifetime of your audience, or how have you been looking at ways to extend it otherwise? Because, as you said, it’s that space, that window of opportunity, it’s this period of time … you’ve got to get the most out of it, right?
Brennan Clark: Yeah, absolutely.
And so, the first thing — and this is kind of innate in how we create these games and launch five games per year — is just depth of content. The more content you have, the longer these kids will have content to consistently engage with.
If they no longer like the game, they might choose another game that they love. So that would be the first. Second is that one of our newish initiatives is designing features for older kids. So, because we’re three-to-five-year-old as our kind of target market, now we’re starting to think, okay, can we design specific features that will be more appealing to a five- or six-year-old, and not be cumbersome for a three-year-old to play with? So, thinking about how to extend lifetime in that way.
The third is looking at how to engage parents. So historically we haven’t been great at having these open lines of communications with parents or engaging with them. So we’ve actually launched a parent app now, a Sago Mini Parent app where, for example, if their kid in Sago Mini School has created a drawing, that drawing will be saved and shared to the parent app, so that they can kind of see—
John Koetsier: Love it.
Brennan Clark: Exactly. So you can see the creations, you can see the various things that your kid is doing in the app, and have those stored. So that’s another way that we’re kind of looking at it, is servicing and engaging with the parent segment.
John Koetsier: Brennan, I just have to ping in there for a second, because you know you mentioned about some app experiences or some games that appeal more to older kids. We talked about Webkinz; we know Disney bought them a decade ago or something like that, right? There can’t be anybody better in the world than Disney at capturing an age range and then transitioning them as they age out of that content into the next level of content. It’s almost like maybe there’s some things to learn there from if you want to be a brand that doesn’t just target— you’re totally fine of course, targeting who you want to target, but if you want to extend that relationship over time, maybe there’s something to see there?
Brennan Clark: Yeah, absolutely.
And so that’s, like parents because they’re bombarded with so many ads, so many messages from companies all around. If they find a company that they really like and a brand that they truly trust … if we can extend that lifetime and extend features for that older age range, they would be more than happy to continue to stay with Sago Mini, because it’s so tough to find trust with brands.
And so that’s one area we’re looking at as, if we can execute this well, I think there’s definitely a lot of room in extending that lifetime.
Peggy Anne Salz: I like this, you’re doing so much to extend the lifetime. I’m thinking also about that stickiness in there — you might think about this, John, from PicsArt — you know, keep stuff and store stuff that you’ve made, and how that’s also a very exciting way to keep people coming back, to keep people thinking of you. Do you think—
John Koetsier: Ohhhh, Peggy—
Peggy Anne Salz: Yeah?
John Koetsier: Just think about that. What if you had the ability to see like a treasure store of the art you created as a kid?
Peggy Anne Salz: I’d love to see it.
John Koetsier: And you could come back to that later.
Peggy Anne Salz: I remember all of it. The hands were like this, and the feet were off going over there — oh yeah, I’ve been there. But it would be great to have it, and you’ve got that.
But you know, there’s another side of all this, and that’s understanding those early warning signs of churn.
And it’s really interesting in your case, Brennan, because again, first of all, you have the user and the buyer, and you’ve also got the age groups. So what are you looking at? What do you see as those first signs of churn and how do you combat them? Because they’re going to be, I would imagine, quite subtle.
Brennan Clark: Yeah, absolutely. And so, you can look at time spent in-app and app opens over a given month. There are a fair amount of indicators, they are subtle as you mentioned.
One of the things that’s interesting is, and the engaging with parents is really trying to solve for this, is that — oh, some users will not decrease their engagement, but their parent doesn’t perceive that their engagement is where it was. So they, the parent is unaware that the kid is still engaging this much with the app, that they no longer think they’re using it and they’ll churn.
So by engaging the parents, that’s one area where we’re trying to solve for that. Because there is a segment that doesn’t think their kids are playing with it, but if you look at the data, they actually are engaging as much as they were beforehand. So that’s one interesting kind of place to look at that.
We’re also looking at teasing upcoming games.
So historically, kids know that we have a release cycle, so five releases in a given year. But we never tease the upcoming release. So we’ve kind of drawn on — Netflix has done this quite well, with the ‘coming soon’ tab in Netflix where you can see all the movies or TV shows that they’re about to launch. So we’ve kind of been taking inspiration from that, and we’re really going to tease out the next games that are coming up.
Because if you know that Dinosaurs is coming out, you probably aren’t going to churn. I certainly wouldn’t. So that’s one of the other areas we’re looking at.
John Koetsier: I love it. I absolutely love it. It reminds me of what HBO Max is doing right now in the adult space, right? The entire catalog of a major studio is going to come right to streaming for 2021, right? I mean, who’s going to churn from HBO Max when they know that? And how many people are going to join in when they know that? I mean, I already have — I’m totally switching context here, Peggy, but it’s relevant — I already have Netflix. I’ve got Disney+. I’ve got Amazon Prime Video and I’m pretty sure one other streaming service that I can’t recall … oh, Apple TV+. But I’m considering getting HBO Max because I know there’s some movies out there that I want to see. So that’s a great approach. One other approach you have—
Peggy Anne Salz: And again, John, think about it. That’s again, product as being the focus. So we are onto something in along these interviews. It’s just this thread that goes through and tells us about product and stickiness.
John Koetsier: Yeah.
Peggy Anne Salz: And content as a tease. So, I think that’s something here.
John Koetsier: Absolutely. A lot of teasing. One of the other things you do, Brennan, is you personalize experiences. You design features to drive retention by putting kids in control of their experience. What’s that look like? Can you unpack that?
Brennan Clark: Yeah. So a couple things we’re doing with that. First, is that really the core of how we design games and one of the lenses that we look at is that it’s a child-led experience.
So none of our games have tutorials, they don’t have steps, they don’t have accomplishments. It is child-led learning, much like, again as I mentioned, we take a lot of inspiration from physical toys.
A physical playset does not have steps or an existing story. The kid designs the story, they lead anything, they lead the story, they lead the discovery, the learning, all that. So that’s kind of the core of all of our games is that it is child-led.
The second, and this is more kind of coming back to that designing for older kids, is that older kids want more customizability in terms of what they can do; they want more tools.
So one of the things we’re looking at for 2021 is designing these features for five- and six-year-olds that really come down to customization, and kind of redesigning the Sago experience in a way that suits what they want to do.
John Koetsier: Yeah. Brennan, I want to ask you a question. We had Nick Hobbs on the show, and he runs Brief which is a subscription news product. And a pretty interesting guy, he led the Google self-driving team, he was the product manager for Google’s iOS app. So, really interesting guy, great background.
He decided against doing a trial, a free trial, and he put in place a hard paywall. You want to jump in — you’re jumping in the pool with your clothes on, right? You’re just, you’re going for it, right? How does that approach strike you? Does it differ from what you do? And what have you learned about what you do that works in your space?
Brennan Clark: So we have tested the hard paywall. Essentially where we’ve gone is this hybrid model. So the first thing a user will see, or one of the first things we’ll see is an option to buy Sago Mini Worlds in the onboarding. So they have this paywall up front; it’s not a hard paywall, so they can continue on and try their free trial.
We actually see about 50 to 70% of purchases in a given month is from that upfront paywall. Where I would disagree with Nick on that, is that if you have this hard paywall you’re pretty much excluding a whole bucket of users up front, much in the way that a paid app in the App Store for $5 completely takes that app away from a whole segment of the market that just doesn’t want to pay up front.
So you do lose this whole segment — unquantified, who knows how large that segment is — but you are losing a segment that wouldn’t pay up front for this experience.
John Koetsier: Yes.
Brennan Clark: The second thing too is, with Sago Mini, you know, our core advantage is how strong and how high quality our games are. So we essentially, our goal is to get as many users, as many kids’ families out there to try Sago Mini World as possible … because we know that our product will really speak for itself when they try it, versus any other game in the kids’ App Store.
So really, our core goal is to have as many free trials going at once as possible, because we know that’s our best chance to convert these users, after they’ve seen the quality.
John Koetsier: Love it.
Peggy Anne Salz: Mm-hmm. So, you’ve looked into Surprises; you’ve launched those. You’re bundling your games. You’re going to move into digital and physical, which sounds really cool. So you have a lot lined up to continue engaging audiences in the New Year, of course, and you’ve done really well this year as well.
And you know, it’s end-of-the-year, we’re all looking forward and we’re saying, okay, what are we going to do differently? We’re in different times. And you’ve achieved a lot in engagement. We’ve talked about retention. We’ve talked about the increase in opens. How do you intend to keep it up? What are you going to do to grow your momentum in 2021? What can you share?
Brennan Clark: Yeah, so two of the plans that I’ve already kind of mentioned are Surprises and kind of really bulking up that back catalog and the depth of that content. Second, I can’t share too much on this, but it’s really about designing for five- to six-year-olds.
So we’re coming out with these kind of customizability tools that will really help kids customize and redesign their experience within Sago Mini World, in a way that more suits these older kids. Another interesting project that we’re working on this upcoming year is, you know, I mentioned that we had our standalone apps that were originally $5 and then we kind of wrapped them all into the subscription app that’s Sago Mini World. Those $5 apps, those single game apps that we call standalones, they still exist in the App Store.
John Koetsier: Oh wow.
Brennan Clark: So essentially what we’re doing now is we’re going to rip those down and we’re going to relaunch these standalone games as free trial games. So, users can download any of those games for free; they’ll have a free trial. We’re testing a variety of free trials. We’re doing 7-day trials or 5-session trials. So these 5-session trials are kind of inspired by media apps. So essentially what we’re doing there is giving them a chance to, again, try the Sago Mini experience, because we’re so confident in our content.
And once they’re done this trial, then they have the opportunity to purchase the game outright for $5, or we say, ‘There’s Sago Mini World where you get access to 35 more games, all for a low subscription price.’ So we’re essentially kind of redesigning our whole back catalog as this introduction to the Sago Mini experience and content.
So that’s another super interesting project that I’m quite excited about for this upcoming year.
Peggy Anne Salz: And super interesting strategy of, you know, you bundle it, it costs nothing, there’s no problem in unbundling it, using that to build a funnel, keeping that going around in a circle. It’s a very smart strategy.
I think we’ve done it, John. We have learned a lot now about kids apps, and I think there’s a lot more in learning about retention in this space. It’s fascinating, particularly the life cycle, you know, life cycle’s limited so you have to get it right. Just been a great talk with you, Brennan. Thanks so much for joining us today and sharing this.
Brennan Clark: Thanks so much for having me.
John Koetsier: It has been a real pleasure to have you, Brennan. And I have to say, Peggy, hey it’s our first guest with a Christmas tree. So, Merry Christmas, Brennan!
Brennan Clark: Merry Christmas, everyone.
John Koetsier: Everybody else as well, we do appreciate that. For Brennan, it has been a massive learning experience. I didn’t know — I guess this is always the case, right, Peggy?
You don’t know how much you don’t know, that’s why you don’t know.
I did not know how much I did not know about kids apps and how different that space was. I knew it was different. I knew there was something out there. I didn’t know a lot about it, and I’m really happy, Brennan, that you shared so much with us. Thank you for that. And for everybody else who’s been along for the show, thank you for watching. Whatever platform you’re on … hey, please like, subscribe, share, comment, all the above. If you love the podcast, rate it/review it. That would be a massive help.
Peggy Anne Salz: And we have more shows like this, John. I mean, we’re on a roll. We’re wrapping up our year are we not?
John Koetsier: We are wrapping up our year. Absolutely.
Peggy Anne Salz: Yeah, so there’s more. And what I love about what we’re doing, John, is that retention is a part of every single app category. And I even love it more when we’re seeing sort of holistic digital/physical, so there’s loads more. But we will end it for the year with this one. And, yeah, it’s been great being here with you as well, John, if I may say so—
John Koetsier: And you know, Peggy, before you do the final wrap there, in the spirit that Brennan shared with us of sort of surprises or teases … we may be kind of reinventing this show for 2021.
Peggy Anne Salz: Yes.
John Koetsier: The look may change. The title may change just a little bit. There may be a significant sponsor coming on board, and we’re very excited about those things. But yeah, back to your wrap, Peggy.
Peggy Anne Salz: Absolutely. I love evolution, I love change, I love that. And yes, to your point, we do have some surprises set up in 2021, but we’ll leave you, it’s going to be a cliffhanger. We’re going to leave you right there. So that is a wrap for now. Thanks everyone! And until next time, of course, keep well, keep safe. Have a great holiday! This is Peggy Anne Salz signing off with Retention Masterclass.
John Koetsier: And I’m John Koetsier. Have a great day! See you soon.
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